| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
phtiede
3 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2009 : 9:20:23 PM
|
I am interested in suri alpacas. I have almost 2 acres of property and the current ordinance will allow me to have 4 alpacas. Here are my questions...any advice would be appreciated! What size loafing shed and tack room would be sufficient? Would it be possible to keep 1 gelded male, 1 herdsire and 2 breeding females together? I would then board any pregnant females at another farm until the cria was born and weaned. How much water do alpacas drink per day? How much grain? How much hay? Has anyone used shredded cardboard and stall skins for their alpacas? Do I need a Great Pyrenees? Thank you so much!
Pam
|
|
report to moderator
|
|
|
hoodwinked
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 10:16:19 PM
|
Hi Pam, Suri is the only way to go, at least 10% of Alpaca breeders will agree with me. A lot depends on your location,weather and field type. Rule of thumb is 7 alpacas to one acre. I go more with 5 to an acre. Alpacas mainly need a place to get out of the weather (rain,snow,sun). I figure they eat about 3 lbs. of hay per day per animal. As far as putting the males with the females... Don't do it. Can you put up a fence between them? My alpacas drink about 1 1/2 gal. of water each on a nice day. I use the stall skins and I love them. We love them so much we became distributors for them. I can't give you any advice on the Great Pyrenees, we put up a 6ft. no climb fence hopefully that will do the trick for now. Good luck in you quest. Let us know what you do.
Sue
Terry & Sue Hart
SunRise Suris
Vinton, IA
319 784-7847
319 310-7705
SunRise_Suris@commspeed.net
www.AlpacaNation.com/SunRiseSuris.asp |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
LL Alpacas
42 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 10:19:54 PM
|
Pam
loafing shed- I assume you mean a shelter for them to get out of the sun or rain. I used a carport, and divided the interior space. Each side is a space 10ft x 15ft rectangular. I have more space inside than that, and use that space for an aisle/walkway/pellet storage/ shearing area/ breeding area etc. But it's a pretty big carport!
I can get my llama, 3 dams, 2 maidens and 2 crias to fit in the 10 x 15 ft space in the rain. It's a bit crowded, but hopefully that gives you some sort of an idea of size.
Tack room- Could be any size. I built a metal shed that's 14ft X 30ft to store my hay in. I can get 84 bales in with room to spare. You shouldn't need that much room if you only have four alpacas there at a time. You could use something as small as a tuff shed. You want to be able to keep your hay dry, and keep your pellets out of the sun and rain ( I use a metal trash can for pellets and keep it under the carport). Everything else you could keep inside your garage or house. Like your tack, medical supplies, etc.
Water- I couldn't tell you how much they drink in a day, but I keep one water bucket per animal (not counting crias) in my pens. I use the large, 5 gallon buckets from the feed store. In the summer I have to refill buckets each night. In the fall and winter They drink half the amount.
Hay- I've heard one flake of hay per day (orchard grass or timothy or whatever alpaca people use in your area) per alpaca. If you have stuff growing in your field that they eat, it will be even less. I'm on pasture and my six eat less than 2 flakes a day.
Great Pyrenees is an option to protect your animals, but is not required. A guard llama is another option. And there are a few other dog breeds that will work. I don't use dogs, so someone else will have to fill you in.
You will need at least two separate pastures. The males will try to breed the females. You will want to control breeding. Fencing type is important too. Fencing with large gaps in the wire can get alpaca heads and feet tangled! Or let predators in. Many alpaca farms use 4 or 5 foot tall woven wire fencing called 2 x 4 no-climb.
Pam, what area are you in? I think many of your questions could be answered by a visit to a farm in your area. Alpaca people love to have farm visitors and to talk alpaca!
I'm curious why you're only allowed 4 alpacas on two acres. I know a farm here with like 60 alpacas on two acres! The pasture has gone to a drylot state with such density, but they are not a nuisance to neighbors or anything. It may be possible to have more than four, but it depends on where you are. Some states see alpacas as livestock, some do not.
LL Alpacas
9117 Dillard Rd.
Wilton CA 95693
(916)308-9430 |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Apomerantz
101 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 10:23:14 PM
|
Pam,
If you are getting alpacas (and suris are my preference as well!) then I would probably suggest sticking with JUST females or JUST males. It really isn't worth it to keep a male for just 1-2 females. A gelding does make a nice companion for either sex as long as he isn't to aggressive. We don't use shredded cardboard, I think it really sticks in a suri's fleece and is a pain to get out. We use loafing sheds (aside from one barn). They are about 12 ft. X 6 ft. and they boast concrete flooring and are closed on 3 sides. Our alpaca females eat about 3/4 cup of grain per alpaca per day, the boys are too fat and get grain every other day.
Amy |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Judith
2681 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:11:53 PM
|
Hi Pam -- as others have indicated, how large a facility you need depends on your location. If you are in a mild climate, a run-in or loafing shed is fine and they'd be fine in a small area for short periods of time during rainstorms, etc. The alpacas here in the cold, snowy northeast have to be pretty much restricted to the barn for long periods of time (sometimes 2-3 weeks at a time when the snow builds up), so they need more internal space than if they could get out on a regular basis.
I find that my alpacas drink much more in the winter than in the summertime, probably because we have so much fog at night here that there is a very high water content in their forage during the summer, but once they're on dry hay in the off-season, they need more water.
I agree that it's not a good plan to run males with females, even if the females are bred. Some males don't take spit for an answer, and you can lose a pregnancy or end up with repeated infections from unwanted breedings.
The amount of hay they need depends on whether they have access to other forage (grass, forbs, etc.), and the quality of the hay you're feeding. You can feed less of a higher quality hay than you would if it were inferior hay. I don't feed any supplemental hay during the summer when pasture is available, and during the winter last year I used 2 35-60# bales of grass hay/day for 28 head. Remember that hay will weigh more in the fall because it hasn't fully cured and dried, and it is generally better nutritionally at that time. By spring, it's lost much of its moisture content and some of its nutritional value so you may need to feed more.
Oh, and good choice! Suris ARE the only way to go!
Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Suris
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Judith
2681 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:16:49 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by LL Alpacas
I'm curious why you're only allowed 4 alpacas on two acres. I know a farm here with like 60 alpacas on two acres! The pasture has gone to a drylot state with such density, but they are not a nuisance to neighbors or anything. It may be possible to have more than four, but it depends on where you are. Some states see alpacas as livestock, some do not.
LL Alpacas
9117 Dillard Rd.
Wilton CA 95693
(916)308-9430
When I first started with alpacas, the municipality where I lived insisted that alpacas be treated the same as horses: 5 acres per alpaca! It was very clear that they did not wish to encourage farming enterprises, preferring to subdivide all the existing farmland into nice profitably taxable housing lots. I ended up relocating to my current location where the county planning commission had a clear vision of the value of agriculture and its relationship to the quality of life of all residents. Not every community is farm-friendly, and municipal officials and economic development agencies can make life miserable if they want to.
Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Suris
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
CESpeed
58 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:32:03 PM
|
Pam,
I'm too new to alpacas myself to give much advice but I can say that I agree with your choice of suris. They were my choice as well and the ones I saw had just been sheared and I didn't know the difference between a huacaya and a suri. It just happened the ones I liked were all suris.
Welcome fellow suri newbie!
Chenyn Allen
Alpaca Springs (coming soon)
http://www.alpacasprings.net
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
danimac
514 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 12:10:23 AM
|
quote:
Rule of thumb is 7 alpacas to one acre. I go more with 5 to an acre.
Really depends on the area of the country you live in, rainfall, if you dry lot, etc.
Pam -- as the others said, you NEED to keep the males (gelding or not) in a separate pasture from the females. Geldings are known to attempt to breed even pregnant females and can cause uterine infections. There are owners that will say they've never seen it, but a lot happens after dark that we never see. :-)
Before you get your animals, have a good conversation with yourself about your plans -- are you wanting to breed them, having them as pets, or have a small fiber herd. Depending on those and other questions will determine a lot of things -- whether you get males or females, what color(s), etc.
If you want to try and have more than 5 alpacas for your 2 acres -- in a past issue of Alpaca Magazine is a great article on what another alpaca owner did to convince his county to let him have 5 animals/acre. If you call the AOBA office, I'm sure they can help you pick out the right issue to get.
What the others have said about hay and water. You'll also want minerals (either as part of a pellet supplement or free choice) -- make sure it's made for alpacas as they have different needs than sheep and goats, and either ADEB12 vitamin paste or injectable Vit D (current thinking is that all alpacas need it at least during the winter here in North America, if not all year round).
Good luck! Owning alpacas is a blast.
Cheers,
Dani
Dani McKenzie
Longbottom Meadows
Roy, WA
360-400-0348
http://www.longbottommeadows.com |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
bobvicki
1874 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 01:08:38 AM
|
Hi Pam,
As others have said a lot of what you need for alpaca housing depends on your area of the country.
1st my recommendation to you would be to start with 2 females, no males. If the females are pregnant you will have 2 babies and be at you current max of 4 in only about 6 months, so why risk breaking the local ordinance right from the start. Even if the 2 babies are both boys (yes it happens) you will have until they are between 7 and 12 months before you have to separate them. If you buy bred females with a free breed back or 2, those little boys could stay with the moms until a year old usually without problems since the only time they will be open is just after giving birth to them. That buys you a lot of time to decide what you want to do and to convince the local law makers to let you have more. If you have 2 girls no problems until the 2nd pregnancies are delivered (then your over your max). This scenario also means you are not feeding and caring (medical) for adult males while you get babies. Some breeders are offering 2 or more "free" rebreedings making it even later before you would want a herdsire around. If you started with 2 young maidens with 2 or more breedings you could go even longer before needing your own males. The money you save from not having males for 3 years would certainly pay for good breedings when you finally need them. The young boys with their mothers up to a year old are more nuisance to the mom's instead of aggressive breeders, because of their size and age.
Regarding a guard llama, I would be willing to bet your county would count it as one of your animals and any type of Livestock Guardian Dog (LGD)would find any weakness in your fencing. Guardians may not even be needed on your 2 acres depending on your fencing and what type of predators you are trying to be protected from. Many if not all LGD's bark and BARK BIG at everything, if you have close neighbors you will certainly get complaints.
Another thing to keep in mind is that what ever size small barn and supplies you think are adequate you will quickly decide you wanted or needed more.
Speaking of "barns" Menard's or Home Depot sell Barn shaped storage units in many sizes, some as work shop type buildings, and I know they have some nice ones that would work great for 4 or 5 alpacas. They are also made of wood and you can have a wooden floor or put them on a cement pad. They also come with wiring so all you have to do is run a line to them. I think they even bring them to your property and put them up.
If you find a good local vet that has experience with llamas or alpacas you could bring your 2 pregnant girls home and have your babies right there. Many of started out doing that. Then maybe the farm you bought your animals from would let you bring a male there for breedings and you don't have to send your mom's and babies away. You also want to attend a neonatal clinic. These are great for helping with problems and recognising problems, but the vast majority of births are without problems.
Give me a call I have my cell phone with me most of the time.
Bob
Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
3288 Halter Avenue
Newton, Iowa 50208
641-831-3576
alpaca@iowatelecom.net
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
jillmcm
1545 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 07:44:11 AM
|
Hi, Pam - I second (or third) most of what has already been said. We can be a lot more helpful if you tell us where you are located, because keeping suris (or any alpaca) in the south is quite different than in the north - and the east and west coast have their own peculiarities, too. I'm thinking partially in terms of parasites and also in terms of weather protection. I have suris up here in Maine, so I can tell you a lot about how they deal with the cold - others could fill in details if you're in another part of the country.
One thing to familiarize yourself with before you have any animals is what parasites are endemic in your area. Talk with some local farms to find out what they have to deal with. If there are white-tailed deer in your area, then you need to learn about meningeal worm; in warm, wt areas, liver fluke and barber pole worm are issues; and so on. Current protocol (except for meningeal worm) is to check fecals first, treat second - don't worm on a schedule, only worm if you need to.
One of the very best things you can have is an experienced camelid vet within a reasonable distance, especially as a newbie. I would make sure you have one lined up - and preferably meet them! - before you bring any animals home. Ask local farms who they use, and if they're happy with them. This can literally be a lifesaver for you.
Feel free to call or email (I'm sure that goes for all of us!) - it's much easier to answer all the questions you must have in a conversation, instead of on line.
Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
phtiede
3 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 10:48:20 AM
|
The input has been wonderful! I live in southeast Salt Lake City in the foothills. The elevation is around 5000 feet. My acres are not flat pasture land-they look more like natural habitat in South America...at least that is my conclusion from internet pictures. Would that be considered dry lot? I do have native grasses/bushes/plants growing in the back. Where would I take plant samples to see if anything growing out there is dangerous to alpacas?
I do plan to find a camelid vet and have some discussions with him/her.
Most of the alpaca farms in Utah seem to be in very rural areas at higher altitude. The area in which I live used to be considered rural as there is an abundance of horse property, however recent incorporation has affected that. I have visited one alpaca farm and will visit others before taking the plunge.
My plan for fencing is a 5 foot livestock fence with 2x4 openings. I can have a 120 square foot storage shed/barn without needing a building permit...so that's the direction I will be headed. I saw some modified loafing sheds from Gateway Alpacas in Oregon that look sufficient for my location.
The predators that I have seen in my location include: coyote and red fox...any experience in dealing with those would be welcomed.
Pam |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
jillmcm
1545 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 1:48:48 PM
|
Red fox (which weigh about the same as a housecat under all that fur) are not a threat to alpacas except for the very smallest of newborn cria - coyotes are also typically only a threat to young alpacas, and then rarely. Coyotes don't like to enter fenced areas unless they're really hungry - they're smart enough to worry about being trapped. A good guard llama and appropriate fencing is usually more than enough to deal with these smaller predators - the biggest threat most of us face is wild dogs or escaped pets out looking for trouble. Dogs aren't smart about fences, and they don't only hunt when they're hungry. A llama is as much at risk from domestic dogs as the alpacas, and if you think you may have a problem with local dogs, then you may want to consider a livestock guard dog.
There are many pros and cons to both the dogs and llamas; you'll need to assess your threat level and decide if you think an LGD would be appropriate, or if having a llama is sufficient. I have both coyote and foxes here, but neither one worries me particularly. We have plenty of easier pickings for them (including free range poultry, although they're seldom bothered, either). The llama watches both like a hawk when she sees them, and I think she'd stomp one flat if it got into the fields.
Good fencing is your first line of defense, though - minimum 5' high, preferably with either electric at top and bottom on the outside, or a skirt of buried wire to keep anything from digging under. I used a fence that has graduated opening sizes, from 2" high at the bottom up to about 4" high at the top. This helps keep smaller nuisance animals out of the pasture, too - things like skunks and porcupines that I wouldn't want a dog or a llama messing with.
If you haven't visited Sierra Bonita (about half an our south of Salt Lake) yet, do so! They have some excellent suris, including one of the most decorated herdsires in the business. Leslie can also answer a lot of Utah specific questions.
Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
danimac
514 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 9:53:10 PM
|
quote:
Would that be considered dry lot?
Not usually. Dry lot is dirt/rock or sand only in the entire paddock. Alpacas aren't normally browsers (bush eaters), but some are. Most prefer a variety of grasses. If you get your Ag Extension agent out to your place to identify (by scientific name) the various plants in your pasture/paddock, you can do an online search to see if they're poisonous to alpacas (remember -- just because it ain't bad for other animals, doesn't mean is good for alpacas).
Cheers,
Dani
Dani McKenzie
Longbottom Meadows
Roy, WA
360-400-0348
http://www.longbottommeadows.com |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
LeastBlue
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 06:05:35 AM
|
"If you get your Ag Extension agent out to your place to identify (by scientific name) the various plants in your pasture/paddock"
I concur with this. At least here in Florida the Ag/County Extension Agents are WONDERFULLY helpful. They are also busy so you may have to be willing to wait a while for them to schedule time to come out to your pasture. Don't forget to plan for them to come during the time the plants are at their most verdant; makes identifying them easier. Around here there are many plants that go completely dormant at certain times of the year - makes it difficult or even impossible for the agent to find and identify them.
Of course, if you have relatively few species of plants growing, you can pick samples (and take pics of the whole plant) and take them to the agent. The idea of finding and pulling every type of weed in my yard makes me shudder, though. Much easier (on me at least) to wait for the agent to come out and wander around finding them all himself! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
LeastBlue
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 06:08:05 AM
|
| By the way, I really commend you for doing research now and preparing for your Suris ahead of time. I just finished reading another thread where people thought they understood how to care for their alpacas and ended up starving four of the five to death. Only the intervention of a member here saved the fifth from the same fate. It appears the owner was WILLING to do right by his 'pacas, just didn't have enough of the right information. So KUDOS to you! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Suri apaca newbie questions
