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meadowsong
142 Posts |
 Posted - 11/07/2009 : 06:58:39 AM
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We have a cria that is 3 weeks old. His mom is a maiden and despite lactation herbs from three weeks prior to delivery and domperidone, she doesn't have much milk. We have been bottle feeding and cria has been gaining 1/2+ lb per day. It has been cold, wet and muddy here so cria has been kept with mom in our walk-out basement. Mom seemed fine with this. Cria is starting to get alot of energy and the weather is nicer so we have been putting them in a pen in a grassy area during the day, away from the other animals. Thursday we put them in a paddock area to reintroduce them to the herd. It has some dirt and cria was nibbling. Friday we put them in with the other animals in the pasture. He was nibbling on the grass, and well, everything. Husband was working on the barn and keeping a casual eye on things so we know there wasn't any rough play. Cria wouldn't take a bottle for the noon feeding, all the excitement we thought. He took a bottle at 3pm and 6pm yesterday. He has refused to take one since. His temp is normal but he seems a little quieter than normal. We have not been able to catch him pooping yesterday or today, but he has been previously.
I thought he might have an upset tummy from the new things he nibbled. I just gave him some sucralfate, although some of it dribbled out. I am going to give him some probiotic paste too. I have a call into the vet hoping he can come by today , but I haven't heard from him yet. Any thoughts on what might be going on or other things I should be doing?
Diane Pedrotte
Meadowsong Alpacas
Capac, MI
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highpeaksalpacas
544 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 07:41:00 AM
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Have you done a fecal on the cria? I'd start there.
What is the weight gain/loss?
Is the cria coated? A coat can do wonders for cria needing to use more energy to grow and less to stay warm...
Just a couple of things to think about...let us know how he's doing!
Debbie
High Peaks Alpacas
Wilmington, NY
www.alpacanation.com/highpeaks.asp
You only live once...live with alpacas! |
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kipaca
665 Posts |
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meadowsong
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 08:10:52 AM
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We brought him and mom back in last night since he refused to eat so I know he's not sneaking anything. Mom has some, but it's unlikely she all of a sudden has enough to keep him satisfied. He was taking 8 oz every 3 hours. His birth weight was 14.7 and he's up to 21.5. He held that weight yesterday, no loss, no gain. He's coated when he's out. I guess it's the abruptness of the refusal that bothers me since he was always eager for his bottle before.
Diane Pedrotte
Meadowsong Alpacas
Capac, MI |
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highpeaksalpacas
544 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 08:22:46 AM
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Why don't you leave him out with the herd...what are your temps like... keep him coated if you have to..but the freedom followed by isolation...has to be a bit stressful.
Debbie
High Peaks Alpacas
Wilmington, NY
www.alpacanation.com/highpeaks.asp
You only live once...live with alpacas! |
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nyala
2251 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2009 : 2:51:45 PM
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Hi,
We had a little guy whose mom's milk was slow to come in and he abruptly stopped taking the bottle like that but his energy level was great. He's never taken one since and gained well. I like the idea of doing a fecal on your little guy although at 3 weeks its early for him to be shedding much also since he was pretty isolated it seems less likely that he picked something up. Still I'd worry about coccidia especially the smaller ones since their life cycle is shorter you might see those in a fecal.
I guess the other thing I'd worry about is an infection of some sort. What his temp like?
Good luck with him and keep us posted
Ann
D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp |
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meadowsong
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 01:27:03 AM
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Well, since the weather is going to be nice for a few days, we stayed with our plan to integrate cria and mom back into the herd, but they are in a smaller pasture with a few herd mates. Cria has taken a bottle today, but about half of what he normally gets. We have seen him nursing mom and staying under there longer so we are hoping she may be getting more milk in. At his weigh-in this morning he held his weight for the previous 24 hours, we will recheck in the am. His temp was 101.6 again tonite, will be keeping an eye on that too. His energy level was excellent today, so he must be getting something from mom. The vet did call back after his clinic hours and said he could come this evening if we wanted him to. We already have an appt for Tues morn scheduled and since cria was taking some of the bottle again and energy level was good, we opted to wait, with the vet on 'standby'. We haven't been able to collect any beans for a fecal, can't find the little buggers even when we see them fall as he chooses to go in the straw.
Maybe the probios and sucralfate helped. We will continue with that for a bit. Vet said we could start antibiotics as a precaution at our discretion. We decided to wait until am recheck of weight and temp.
Hopefully this is just a case of mom's milk FINALLY coming in better! I will let you know how things pregress. Thanks for all of your suggestions.
Diane Pedrotte
Meadowsong Alpacas
Capac, MI |
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Alpaca Adventure
2 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 10:03:49 AM
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Hi -
We just got over a similar problem. Our 19-pound, 4-week-old cria abruptly stopped taking her supplemental bottle recently. After a few frantic days, I realized that her refusals started about the same time I bought a new carton of half & half, which we have been adding to her formula for extra calories and fat. I got a new carton of a different brand, and she immediately restarted taking her 5 ounces, 5 times a day like a champ and gaining weight again - yesterday she hit 20 pounds! We couldn't detect anything wrong with the previous carton, and I enjoyed it in my coffee!
During her days of refusal, our vet had us give oxytocin injections to her (open) Mom, which may have helped a bit, and we tried maple syrup, corn syrup, and different yougurt flavors to entice her. Nothing worked except the new half and half. The next step might have been separating the Mom and cria, based on the thought that the cria prefers mother's milk but won't starve herself if there is none available. I'm SO glad we didn't have to do that! We had also done the herbs and domperidone, and had felt that we were humming along with a successful supplementing routine, until this happened.
Maybe you can find something that changed for your cria, or just start fresh or use a new formula. Good luck - my very sympathetic thoughts are with you.
Pat Nash
Alpaca Adventure Farm
Macedonia, OH
216-509-8928 |
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meadowsong
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 10:58:58 AM
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Just wanted to give you all an update: In the last 2 days I've tried every combination of everything I could put in a bottle from plain organic milk (2 different brands), mixed with organic yogurt, mixed with half and half, and a powdered milk substitute. Still very hit and miss, mostly miss. Cria has lost 1/2 lb in two days. At every feeding for the adults I crush some of mom's pellets and put them in his mouth. He doesn't fight me on this but doesn't look for more. A few days ago I decided to focus more on boosting mom's milk. She's still getting lac herbs and I decided to add some calf manna until I could find some nice alfalfa. I didn't know if I could give calf manna to such a young cria, but after talking to a friend (thanks Genine!)I decided to try crushing some of the calf manna in with the pellets and I added some MSE powdered probiotic since my other cria loved it. I put some of the mix in Dalton's mouth and he just stood there. Then he began to taste it and chew it. THEN HE CAME LOOKING FOR MORE!!! He stood there and ate all that I had in the feeder. YEA!!!
We do have a creep feeder set up and he hasn't figured that out yet, but you bet we will be working on that.
This has truly been a prayer answered!
Diane Pedrotte
Meadowsong Alpacas
Capac, MI |
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richbye
746 Posts |
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meadowsong
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 3:43:53 PM
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Hi Jeanne,
We are watching everything on this little guy. He still nurses off mom and we still offer him a bottle every 3-4 hours. Sometimes he takes it, sometimes he doesn't. I have even seen him take little drinks from the water bucket. He always pees in the same area and the wood pellets are always really wet (and it's away from where the others pee) and I've watched him go and he pees alot! Thanks for the heads up, we are watching.
Diane Pedrotte
Meadowsong Alpacas
Capac, MI |
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cria stopped eating
